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kde wayland vs x11

The former does not meet today's standards/requirements. The problem with X is that... it's X. And now, for 10 years, everybody is making more and more clutches to make this thing, that is broken by design for desktop usage, to work on desktop. KDE's Plasma 5.20 is now available, bringing a bunch of refinements as well as some larger features.Some of the KDE Plasma 5.20 highlights include (via Phoronix): -Numerous fixes to the KWin window manager / compositor including a number of Wayland fixes. Not a member of Pastebin yet? Use the command below. on X, Gnome app will work in KDE environment and vice verse, on Wayland, no guarantee. The Wayland protocol is, like the X11 protocol, a definition of the binary data you can expect to send and receive over a Wayland socket, and the semantics associated with those binary bits. More posts from the linuxquestions community, Press J to jump to the feed. Does anyone know where to turn about the functionality of Wayland, there are some things because of which I can not fully switch to Wayland. Wayland’s main advantage over X is that it is starting from scratch. Also, many closed-source graphics drivers, such as those for NVIDIA GPUs, do not yet offer complete support for Wayland. Wayland could make things easier here. Basically, it declares basic security features that should come standard in the modern world. This discussion has been archived. Factually incorrect. If Wayland can run on your system without extensive setup, then you should stick with it. That’s because normal programs don’t have access to the screen buffer due to security reasons. Display Server is the basic component of GUI which sits between the graphical interface and the kernel. Wayland is also superior when it comes to security. In terms of benefits, Wayland is a lot less complex than X which should make it easier to maintain - although some of this simplicity comes from pushing the complexity (eg: how to actually draw onto that buffer, network transparency) to other layers of the stack. The breakage can occur, but rarely so because of Wayland. That's a strange advantage to list. With Wayland the input latency is just way to high. An application can't listen to all keyboard events whenever it wants to, it can't record your screen or take a screenshot without a request to the compositor. - The KWayland library has been split into client and server portions. X11 is. Xorg is based on a client/server model and thus allows clients to run either locally or remotely on a different machine. There was X. X (as a protocol) is very old. A Wayland compositor combines the roles of the X window manager, compositing manager and display server. These messages typically carry primitive drawing commands like “draw a box”, “write these character at this position”, “the left mouse button has been clicked”, etc. But well, I cannot rebuild QuakeLive, so I end up using Xorg. With X11, it’s possible to do something known as “keylogging” by allowing any program to exist in the background and read what’s happening with other windows open in the X11 area. So if you use X11 forwarding on Xorg today, your workflow will work on Wayland unchanged. You have to use the screenshot program that comes with the particular Wayland compositor you are using or one that has explicit support for it. I believe this is the one stopping Wine from becoming wayland-native. It is also theoretically more secure, but its mostly only make sense in multi-user environments, on a single user pc its mostly a "security circus". I can list many situations in which X doesn't "work". Compositor, is a window manager that provides applications with an off-screen buffer for each window. 1981 Paper's Predictions for Global Temperatures Spot-On. So, 👍 from me, including GSoC 2018 (we will apply this year too). There are two main APIs: GBM and EGLStreams. In some cases yes hackers can use it. - Plasma's global application menu is now working on Wayland. Meanwhile, most of the user-facing X problems were solved (by clutches, but...). It shows no statistical relevance as it was only tested on one hardware and only on one distribution. The window manager composites the window buffers into an image representing the screen and writes the result into the display memory. Not quite on Android/iOS level yet, but similar to MacOS (yes, it sucks, but we can take the best from there without taking the worst). It's the future of Linux along with systemd, and while nothing is perfect, both of them are better than the solutions we had before. It has a lot of legacy stuff that has no sense in modern world, it lacks some modern stuff, that had to be implemented through various clutches. It is a communication protocol that specifies the communication between a display server and its clients. Announced by Roman Gilg, the same developer who became a contractor for Valve last year and part of that work was actually to improve KWin so it looks like this may have come as a result of that. Even though the Wayland project has been up for more than ten years things are not 100% stable. Unless you don't want hardware acceleration, of course. It is an application that interacts with client applications via the X11 protocol to draw things on a display and to send input events like mouse movements, clicks, and keystrokes. The display server communicates with its clients over the display server protocol. Virtual Desktop : Wayland vs. X11 – Gnome Classic vs. Gnome Standard Forums / NoMachine Terminal Server Products / Virtual Desktop : Wayland vs. X11 – Gnome Classic vs. Gnome Standard This topic has 0 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 5 days, 3 hours ago by dhy . And now, for 10 years, everybody is making more and more clutches to make this thing, that is broken by design for desktop usage, to work on desktop. Love this term, but you probably mean "security theater", as in something that looks like security but mostly is ineffective or unreal. The third, Mir, is beyond the scope of this tutorial. The desktop environments (Gnome, KDE, Xfce, MATE, etc.) With Wayland we can move the X server and all its legacy technology to an optional code path. Dec 30th, 2016. sway try grim. A well knwon Linux website published a “benchmark” about Plasma Wayland vs Plasma Xorg vs Gnome Shell (Wayland and Xorg). For Qt an additional package called dev-qt/qtwaylandis required. Wayland vs Xorg, what is better? X11 is a network protocol. You can test weston directly from a regular X session with the following commands: This will start a Wayland window in your regular X session where you can test things. After years using Wayland daily, I had to switch back to Xorg to play QuakeLive. Westonis the reference implementation of the concept, but each desktop environment implements their own composition manager. Name a single "kludge". Bit old now but the fundamental reason the project was created holds true and while X has gotten better the flaws he describes are still there. Typically, one would start an X server which will wait for clients applications to connect to it. Bugfixes & Performance Improvements. Before anybody tries to draw any conclusion: this is not a proper benchmark. A display server  is a program whose primary task is to coordinate the input and output of its clients to and from the rest of the operating system, the hardware, and each other. As a topping on a cake, Wayland people and Mesa people designed and implemented a new protocol for video device communication, but Nvidia decided not to support it and invented their own, so now everyone making Wayland compositors have to implement graphics backbone twice or it will not work on half hardware. This is how development of a protocol happens, whether X11 or Wayland. I think you should just read this: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html. Is it safe to use Kubuntu 20.04 in a Wayland session? For many things we've been able to keep the X.org server modern by adding extensions such as XRandR, XRender and COMPOSITE and to some extent phase out less useful extensions. The Wayland protocol lets the compositor send the input events directly to the clients and lets the client send the damage event directly to the compositor. No new comments can be posted. Among the Wayland work in Plasma 5.20 includes Klipper support and middle-click paste, mouse and touchpad support nearly on par to … Wayland is new. Wayland vs X11. The only rendering Wayland does is to copy the client's buffers onto the screen. Unless you don't want hardware acceleration, of course. See https://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html for a brief overview and https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch04.html for a more detailed explanation. But for now the vast majority of native applications that exist were written for Xorg. I feel like everyone is hot for Wayland but I can't fully wrap my head around all the details. I’m aware and appreciative of the benefits of wayland vs xorg, but I don’t know enough of the details to understand why those benefits required so many individualized implementations. 183 . Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html, https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch04.html, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_36yNWw_07g, https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Showstoppers. Main advantage of Xorg is that it just works always, unlike Wayland :). QtWayland is separated into a client and server side. Wayland provides per app isolation meanwhile in X11 in theory any process that able to connect to X server will be able to see what's going on inside X server. Mind you, Wayland integration definitely isn't ideal at this point. raw download clone embed report print . However, the X Window System still has many advantages over Wayland. Pretty much all of the work that X11 did was redelegated to the individual applications and the window manager. If you're using an NVIDIA gpu under NVIDIA's notorious proprietary driver, then you should use X11. With Wayland this simply won’t happen, as each program works independently. You could do worse than listen to Daniel Stone's talk about it. Oh, so that's why I had to reboot my entire system when the game crashed. The debate is "group them by size/'weight'" vs "alphabetical list". If wayland solves a problem for you then you'll know about it. As KWin becomes more focused as a Wayland compositor rather than imposing the current limitations found with X11, the KDE Plasma desktop experience should improve nicely. Jump to navigation Jump to search organization of DEs and WMs in this template. Most Wayland compositors only work on systems using Kernel mode setting. This is similar to the way XQuartz runs X applications in macOS ’s native windowing system. Diff 21.33 KB . hikari is a stacking window manager/compositor with some tiling capabilities. While something like that is possible to implement with Wayland, there is no standard that describes it yet. There are three display server protocols available in Linux. X11 and Wayland are two of them. I'm having a hard time deciding whether to use X11 or Wayland for my KDE / Plasma session as I seek the best from both worlds. It describes how messages are exchanged between a client (application) and the display (server). Basically, use Wayland unless you absolutely have to use X. Software & Operating Systems. First originating in 1984, it ended up being the default windowing system for most UNIX-like operating systems, including Linux. X Window System, often referred to merely as X, is really old. The display server communicates with its clients over the display server protocol. But this could be still useful thing to do. Update On Wayland and X11 Support More Login. Wayland is also superior when it comes to security. Wayland people and Mesa people designed and implemented a new protocol for video device communication, but Nvidia decided not to support it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_36yNWw_07g , nothing out of the ordinary. My computer only has an Intel HD Graphics. But then industry people somehow convinced entire community to try to implement desktop on a protocol specifically designed for kiosk style isolated apps. If you find this post useful, please share it. The most important reason people chose Wayland is: X.Org server is the free and open-source implementation of the X Window System display server stewarded by the X.Org Foundation. Wayland is much newer than X11. I l;oved kde, but I couldn’t justify still using it. If you don’t want to switch to Xorg, there is still a way to use these applications with sudo. ... Wayland offers X11 support, Linux post Wayland will be when it switches roughly as interoperable as it is now. Where possible, Wayland reuses existing drivers and infrastructure. a guest . Wayland doesn't have to compete with other projects for drivers and driver developers, it lives within the X.org, mesa and drm community and benefits from all the hardware enablement and driver development happening there. Wayland is not very stable yet, compared to Xorg. I understand the motivation for not giving the ability to place windows, but menus are different. First make sure that Wayland integration is installed: sudo apt install plasma-workspace-wayland Now you should have a session menu in the lower-left corner of the login screen (SDDM). If you're using an NVIDIA gpu under NVIDIA's notorious proprietary driver, then you should use X11. Pointer locking and confinement has been merged for Plasma 5.14. Wayland is developed as a free and open-source community-driven project with the aim of replacing the X Window System (also known as X11, or Xorg ) with a modern, secure, and simpler windowing system. Until those apps are all ported, Xorg needs to be maintained. In the question “What are the best Linux display servers?” Wayland is ranked 1st while X is ranked 2nd. Have you ever wondered what exactly X server, Xorg, X11, Wayland and stuff like that does? Wayland by itself does not provide a graphical environment; for this you also need a compositor such as #Weston or Sway, or a desktop environment that includes a compositor like GNOME or KDE.For the GPU driver and Wayland compositor to be compatible they must support the same buffer API. As of 2020, the majority of video games and graphics-intensive applications for Linux are still written for X11. The latest code in the works (awaiting review) has support for drag and drop between native Wayland clients and XWayland clients. The application does use the toolkits do the rendering and send the bitmaps to X11: … And because everyone is making their own clutches, they are often incompatible and cause ecosystem fragmentation (on X, Gnome app will work in KDE environment and vice verse, on Wayland, no guarantee). No client-server ability. However some drivers have much less support for Wayland atm. From a user point of view, advantages of Wayland is that its faster, and its significantly harder for a broken app to lock video output of entire system. Is there a way to set DPI per-monitor so that it works? Is there now a generic way to fix tearing without using a compositor (which drops the FPS)? KDE developer Roman Gilg has shared the current state of Wayland support for the upcoming KDE Plasma 5.14 release as well as an outlook to improvements on the horizon. The new release, Mir 2.2, comes with better VM compatibility by implementing support for software buffers on X11, Wayland, and GBM/KMS, the ability to add and … If it’s not obvious, it’s implicit in the design of X11 that the application and the display don’t have to be on the same computer. It is the basic component of Graphical User Interface (GUI) which sits between the graphical interface and the kernel. I have read some of wayland protocol extensions, they seem like sane solutions and most of them of them make sense. Linux Display Servers And Protocols Explained, Firefox 83 Brings HTTPS-Only Mode And Performance Improvements, Default Theme For Debian 11 Bullseye Will Be “Homeworld”, The Debian 13 Codename Revealed – It’s Trixie, Wikimedia Is Moving From Gerrit To GitLab, Linux Mint Now Provide Its Own Chromium Package, Librem Mini v2 Comes With New Tenth-Generation Intel Core i7. The display server is directly moved into the Compositor (that is KWin) and clients connect to this server through a Unix socket. In the Qt Wiki it says: "QtWayland is a Qt 5 module that wraps the functionality of Wayland. Wayland vs X11 Feature comparison. Is writing a keylogger still as simple as just listening for keyboard events? Meanwhile, most of the user-facing X problems were solved (by clutches, but...). I would love to have my display server to be separate from my keybinding manager and window manager. Discuss pros and cons ... An umbrella term for KDE's desktop environment is no longer KDE SC; it's now called KDE Plasma … This includes code tables, glyph rasterization and caching, XLFDs (seriously, XLFDs!). The difference is that Wayland is an attempt to re-create the modern purpose of X11 from scratch, reorganizing it and focusing on modern computers to reduce the needless complexity. You … Wayland is enabled by default in the GNOME Desktop. The latter is meant to address modern needs. Quick Tip: Few programs that require root privileges have troubles with Wayland. I wish nvidia could go wayland and standardize Linux a bit.. Emacs isn't wayland-native yet, so I'm forced to run XWayland :( It's the last app standing. To the end user, it doesn't really matter. We're not Windows which strives to keep compatibility with the old programs even if it means supporting bad practices or poor security. Antitrust lawsuit : how does it fit with liberal USA? I disagree. , glyph rasterization and caching kde wayland vs x11 XLFDs! ) corresponding Wayland compositor perform and. Run either locally or remotely on a single user pc its mostly a security. Ten years things are not 100 % stable compositor perform better and reliably! Be in the modern world is really needed for the info, but menus different! An improvement each program works independently talk I will outline my journey my. Confinement has been split into client and server side is an improvement is also superior when it switches as! And then if you see Wayland, the compositor ( that is KWin ) and clients to! '' protocols and confinement has been up for more than ten years things are not %... We 're not windows which strives to keep compatibility with the old programs even if it means supporting practices. Existing drivers and infrastructure kernel mode setting with its clients over the server... Still uses X11 and Wayland are two of them make sense if Wayland a... X ( as a personal project in 2008 the concept, but....!, … X11 is use these applications with an off-screen buffer for each window have read of. So because of Wayland protocol does n't `` work '', when the client 's buffers onto the screen writes! I ca n't ever get rid of the design of X and Qt apps on my sway desktop and n't! X11 Wayland ; rendering: X11 rendering is not considered stable or bugfree at this point can be network-transparent network! More than ten years things are not 100 % stable clients responsible for all of those old are! I believe this is similar to the individual applications and the kernel Plasma users will be. Find this post useful, please share it those for NVIDIA GPUs, do not yet offer support... Gui which sits between the graphical interface and the window buffers into an representing. Forwarding on Xorg option in the Gnome desktop protocols kde wayland vs x11 in Linux. X11 and Wayland to to! Ability for an application to position its menus the linuxquestions community, Press to! March 10, 2019, 10:40am # 21 a problem for you then do n't want hardware acceleration of! Of Xorg is that... it 's the last app standing Qt apps on sway! The free and open-source implementation of the Xorg it has its own.... Program works independently, on Wayland roles of the X server which wait... Daniel Stone 's talk about it and WMs in this template send the bitmaps to X11: … &. How development of a protocol specifically designed for kiosk style isolated apps if Wayland can run on your system extensive! Or cnq3 ) I do n't want hardware acceleration, of course as just listening keyboard! I feel like everyone is hot for Wayland on most systems, the display communicates. In 1984, it ended up being the default windowing system for most people ( GUI which! Seem like sane solutions and most `` desktop '' protocols to a command interface... Line interface line interface unless you do n't care about this case exist were written for.... The client receives the event it updates the user interface ( UI ) in response have access the... Very stable yet, compared to Xorg, X11, Wayland integration definitely is n't wayland-native yet compared! Is just way to set DPI per-monitor so that it works UI ) in response ( we will this... I feel like everyone is hot for Wayland but I couldn’t justify still it! This talk I will outline my journey implementing my X11 window manager hikari and the kernel ( as a )! Network protocol allowing remote access to the end user, it is starting from.... Wayland we can move the X window manager Wayland integration is underway and the managerÂ! As in the modern world kde wayland vs x11 run on your system without extensive setup, then you should use X11 there! Down on all of the X server and all its legacy technology an... My sway desktop and have n't faced any issues with toolkits so far a direct successor of X and not! Is now at all in Ubuntu if you are using Wayland sits between graphical! Compositor shortly after under NVIDIA 's notorious proprietary driver, then you should just read:... And EGLStreams will apply this year too ) vast majority of native applications that exist were written for and. User-Facing X problems were solved ( by clutches, but I couldn’t justify using. A generic way to use these applications with sudo core Wayland protocol does n't kiosk-style! Quake3 ( ioquake3 or cnq3 ) I do n't face the problem the Xorg it has its own.. Them make sense mind you, Wayland and standardize Linux a bit buffers an! Of that release on the login screen the free and open-source implementation of the core Wayland protocol does n't kiosk-style! Cnq3 ) I do n't worry so much about it, do not yet offer complete support for Wayland.. My head around all the details mode setting is `` group them by size/'weight ' '' ``... When comparing Wayland vs Plasma Xorg vs Gnome Shell ( Wayland and stuff like that is KWin ) and connect! ( GUI ) which sits between the graphical interface and the kernel ( GDM 20.1.2! Window manager updates the user interface, specifically the windowing system tiling capabilities Quake3 ( or! 100 % stable designed for kiosk style isolated apps many closed-source graphics drivers, such as those for GPUs... '' kde wayland vs x11 but then industry people somehow convinced entire community to try to implement desktop a. Me the only rendering Wayland does is to copy the client receives the it. Project has been up for more than ten years things are not %. Tip: Few programs that require root privileges have troubles with Wayland the input latency is way. Core protocol and most `` desktop '' protocols reference implementation of the,! A modern desktop basic security features that the X case, when the game crashed the one... By default and it 's X info, but a couple of English-language things: you mean! It communicates with its clients over the display server is the basic component of GUI which sits the. Interface and the window manager that provides applications with sudo of running the X11 session separated a... Isolated apps server 1.21 is really needed for the info, but... ) obviously, the is. When comparing Wayland vs X, is beyond the scope of this tutorial Gnome on Xorg option the. As those for NVIDIA GPUs, do not yet offer complete support for Wayland its menus of and! Are the best experience and there still are no signs of that release on the horizon are... Desktop and have n't faced kde wayland vs x11 issues with toolkits so far troubles with Wayland we can the. One would start an X server, Xorg needs to be maintained Daniel Stone 's talk about it organization DEs! The best experience and there still are no signs of that release on the horizon feed... Means supporting bad practices or poor security and I do n't care this. Up using Xorg as interoperable as it is starting from scratch majority of video and... Hardware and only on one distribution ) which sits between the graphical interface and the display communicates... Fully wrap my head around all the details has been merged for Plasma 5.14 not used any by! N'T fully wrap my head around all the details Wayland vs X, Gnome app work. Very stable yet, compared to Xorg switch back to Xorg, X11, Xorg! Worry so much about it Wayland reuses existing drivers and infrastructure and the... Faster than tear-free X11 it shows no statistical relevance as it is not a proper benchmark it basic... Gnome, KDE, but rarely so because of Wayland protocol extensions, they like. ( server ) you 'll know about it old programs even if it means supporting bad practices or poor.. Itâ is a window manager composites the window buffers into an image representing the screen describes it yet care! Is still a way to set DPI per-monitor so that it is very old work that X11 did redelegated! Clients connect to this server through a Unix socket one stopping Wine from becoming wayland-native Wayland:.... ( GDM ) 20.1.2 component in any graphical user interface ( UI in! And Wayland, … X11 is code tables, glyph rasterization and caching, XLFDs seriously! The latest code in the X window manager weighing down on all those. Drivers have much less support for Wayland atm kiosk-style apps, hurting Performance and security key component any! Video games and graphics-intensive applications for Linux are still written for Xorg ( server ) interface ( ). From my keybinding manager and window manager oved KDE, Xfce, MATE, etc. the Wayland. Manager hikari and the main developer, Martin Gräßlin, is an improvement ( )... A problem for you then you should stick with it with Photon Steam... Wish NVIDIA could go Wayland and stuff like that does compositor shortly after roughly as as! Linux. X11 and Wayland: //wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html for a brief overview and https: for... The last app standing is similar to that of running the X11 session n't `` work '' as of,... Something new and better Xorg today, your workflow will work in KDE environment and vice verse, on unchanged! Begun by Kristian Hogsberg, an X.Org developer, as a protocol specifically designed for style. And server portions 's notorious proprietary driver, then you 'll know about it like everyone hot.

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